Ryan Pinckney>>howdy
Eric Brannen>>hey
matt hayes>>welcome
Jonathan Blanton>>Welcome to Gilligan's Hammock.
Thea Warringer>>hello
Colin McMillen>>hey hey
->->->-> Guest Guest connected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:31:28
Ryan Pinckney>>hey hey hey
Eric Brannen>>lets go
Coy ralley>>hello
matt hayes>>time is waisting
Colin McMillen>>fire it up
Ryan Pinckney>>bring it
Jonathan Blanton>>death to the democrats!
Coy ralley>>lol
matt hayes>>she talks about computers taking over the jobs
Jonathan Blanton>>Oh, wait, we're debating about our essays, aren't
we?
Coy ralley>>i dont know
matt hayes>>like all the jobs in the world which i think is scary
Ryan Pinckney>>that is scary
Eric Brannen>>she thinks the main threat to our society is computers
taking jobs
matt hayes>>i believe that could happen one day
Colin McMillen>>Efficiency is important, but is it worth the risk of
a robot run society?
Ryan Pinckney>>it could
Jonathan Blanton>>Computers couldn't do everything.
Jonathan Blanton>>They would need supervision.
<-<-<-<- Guest Guest disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:33:47
Thea Warringer>>Jobs are slowly turning into computer jobs like
automatic tellers!
Colin McMillen>>A computer is only as good as the person programming
it
matt hayes>>well one day they could maybe
Ryan Pinckney>>computers as of now cannot show the emotion that
humans like to interact with
matt hayes>>thank God
Jonathan Blanton>>They're getting there.
Eric Brannen>>what if the programm is perfect
Jonathan Blanton>>No program is perfect.
Coy ralley>>nothing is perfect
Ryan Pinckney>>thats a big what if eric
Jonathan Blanton>>Especially if it's written by Microsoft.
matt hayes>>the programmer would ahve to be perfect
Eric Brannen>>not right now but in the future
matt hayes>>ha
Colin McMillen>>What happens when you get into a situation where a
split second decision needs to be made....do we give these computers
instincts?
Jonathan Blanton>>We use faster computers.
matt hayes>>i dont think we should
Coy ralley>>How about a Mac....i think they will take over the
world...hahaha
Jonathan Blanton>>Death to Macs!
matt hayes>>disney will
Ryan Pinckney>>i think the Apple IIe will take over the world
Thea Warringer>>you don't have to be perfect speller to write an
error free paper
Colin McMillen>>A program would have to foresee all of the possible
errors and have an appropriate reaction for each
Eric Brannen>>If computer ran everything then money would be worthless
matt hayes>>spelling is errors
Ryan Pinckney>>no it wouldnt
Jonathan Blanton>>That could easily happen. We already have
electronic money, to a certain extent.
matt hayes>>almost everything would be worthless
matt hayes>>true
Ryan Pinckney>>how do you figure matt?
Eric Brannen>>how could you make money if all jobs were run by
computers
matt hayes>>what do we live for
Thea Warringer>>money would not be worthless because you need money
to buy computers
Ryan Pinckney>>that just means money is not readily available
matt hayes>>ha
Coy ralley>>someone has to fix the computers
Colin McMillen>>what is going to build the computers?
Ryan Pinckney>>and to buy food,clothing, etc
matt hayes>>not if they are made to fix themselves
Colin McMillen>>computers building computers, who builds the builders?
Coy ralley>>but what if those computers fail
Ryan Pinckney>>if not money then some medium of exchange
Thea Warringer>>computers won't take all jobs just most of the
matt hayes>>booooommmm
Colin McMillen>>It all comes down to the idea that some job has to be
handled by humans.
Jonathan Blanton>>Yes,but those jobs are dwindling.
Colin McMillen>>granted, it's a very limited number, along the lines
of maintenance and building
Ryan Pinckney>>yes, so how would regular Joes make money in this
society?
Coy ralley>>maybe we should marry a computer so we dont have to worry
about money they can make it for us
matt hayes>>what a honeymoon that would be
Thea Warringer>>some job may be handled by the humans but most will
be performed by computers and what will we do with the unemployed?
Coy ralley>>i know
Ryan Pinckney>>the fortunate ones who make money will have to be
responsible for the other billions of people
Colin McMillen>>Unless society took a turn to theoretical communism,
we'd have to adjust the way economics and trade went.
matt hayes>>i hate adjusting
Ryan Pinckney>>you cannot just adjust like that
Thea Warringer>>What would that adjustment be?
Colin McMillen>>exactly
Ryan Pinckney>>so what is a solution?
Coy ralley>>kill the computers
Jonathan Blanton>>Don't let computers run things.
Ryan Pinckney>>as of right now
->->->-> Guest Guest connected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:38:47
matt hayes>>limit them
Colin McMillen>>it would be nearly impossible to switch an entire
world over to one system in an instant
Eric Brannen>>Adjustment takes time but look way into the future
Guest Guest>>Boo
Jonathan Blanton>>Aaaaaah!
matt hayes>>ahhhhhh
Ryan Pinckney>>i am talking about what changes could we make now to
avoid this future you are referring to?
Thea Warringer>>It may take more of than an instant but how to stop
the eventual takeover?
Jonathan Blanton>>Bomb Microsoft :)
Guest Guest>>Bomb Microsoft!
matt hayes>>yeah
Coy ralley>>kill gates
Guest Guest>>OK, but what are we debating here?
Colin McMillen>>then we destroy all kinds of conveniences that
computers give us now
Thea Warringer>>that is not a solution because there are too many
other companies
matt hayes>>computers takling over jobs
Coy ralley>>kill them all
Colin McMillen>>computers in moderation, I'd say is a good thing
Thea Warringer>>We're debating the takeover of computers
Eric Brannen>>try to make sure mangers and ceo's don't start using
computers to take human jobs
Guest Guest>>Coy, that's what Xena says, evil Xena, that is.
Coy ralley>>lol
Eric Brannen>>lol
Guest Guest>>Oh, Zuboff
Jonathan Blanton>>It might be a good thing if computers took over
mundane or dangerous jobs.
->->->-> nicholas gonzalez connected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:40:47
nicholas gonzalez>>Hey ya'll
nicholas gonzalez>>its about time
Coy ralley>>kill xena she is a computer
matt hayes>>space exploration would be good for them
Thea Warringer>>try to get a computer to do construction
Eric Brannen>>yes some jobs, but then the poor would be out of jobs
Guest Guest>>Zuboff has some really interesting things in her book,
about cprivacy on computer networks in the workpplace
matt hayes>>chico!!!!!
Ryan Pinckney>>that would be no problem tj
Ryan Pinckney>>it is already being done
Thea Warringer>>how
Guest Guest>>Hi Chico
Eric Brannen>>robots could do construction
Jonathan Blanton>>Yeah, that's the problem. What to do with the
unskilled people who can't use computers.
Guest Guest>>What is the downside?
nicholas gonzalez>>Who cares about computers? So what if they make
us do everything faster.
Eric Brannen>>teach them how to use them
Guest Guest>>Do they become a permanant underclass, Jonathan?
Thea Warringer>>the downside is there would be many unemployed people
Ryan Pinckney>>i took a tour of an engineering building and they had
robots used in factories, but they could also build simple things
matt hayes>>i enjoy working feels good when you have a hrd days work
Guest Guest>>We just becoem speed whizzes, Chico
Guest Guest>>Then we get Future Shock, according to Toffler
Guest Guest>>Good point Matt
Ryan Pinckney>>if technology keeps improving as it is, computers
could theoretically take over every job
nicholas gonzalez>>i agree with Ryan
Ryan Pinckney>>even burger flipping
Coy ralley>>well not every job
Guest Guest>>EVERY job, Ryan?
Thea Warringer>>then what would people do
nicholas gonzalez>>most jobs
matt hayes>>close enough
Eric Brannen>>yes that is the point Zuboff is making
Jonathan Blanton>>The less intelligent people would have trouble
finding jobs if computers took over most jobs.
Coy ralley>>yea i guess
Ryan Pinckney>>name a job they couldnt chris
matt hayes>>unemployment will be a problem
Guest Guest>>Unless we got to be like Star Trek NG, no need for
money, jobs just for fun
Eric Brannen>>survival of the fittest or smartest
Colin McMillen>>unemployment woudln't be a problem because everyone
would be unemployed.
nicholas gonzalez>>How would people live if computers did everything?
Ryan Pinckney>>YES EVERY JOB!!!!
Jonathan Blanton>>Computers probably couldn't troubleshoot
themselves--at least not for a long time.
Eric Brannen>>yeAH new topic
matt hayes>>swithing over to winner
matt hayes>>------------
Colin McMillen>>winner, let's have it
Jonathan Blanton>>Winner is a loser.
Ryan Pinckney>>Alrighty then...
matt hayes>>i hear ya
Coy ralley>>i will drink to that
nicholas gonzalez>>give us your best shot!
Guest Guest>>Winner, is a very strange guy, nice sometimes, a pain
other times
Thea Warringer>>What is winner?
nicholas gonzalez>>drinking is bad
Eric Brannen>>lets go get some drinks
Guest Guest>><---took a class with him, Technology and Social Theory
Coy ralley>>nope
Jonathan Blanton>>Winner says technology is often undemocratic, but
doesn't give many examples.
nicholas gonzalez>>you must be pretty old
Guest Guest>>Winner is very smart tho.
matt hayes>>ah
Ryan Pinckney>>winner says that society could be changed by
electronic surveillance and the like
matt hayes>>ha
Guest Guest>>How about Nuclear Power?
Guest Guest>>Is nuclear power democratic or undemocratic?
matt hayes>>yeah did you see that will smith movie
nicholas gonzalez>>Electronic surveillance is against the rights of
Americans
Colin McMillen>>I watched Enemy of the STate, and that dealt a lot
with electronic surveillance.
Coy ralley>>which one
Thea Warringer>>i don't think it matters after it goes off
matt hayes>>surveilance was everywhere
Guest Guest>>You have to have all these safety features, and central
control, or else you get leaks
Jonathan Blanton>>Sounds like 1984.
Ryan Pinckney>>yes, and it could force workers to lose their
"niceness" in order to meet quotas
matt hayes>>or 1999
Thea Warringer>>i don't think there should be that much surveillance
Eric Brannen>>I think electroni survalence is good because crime
would go down
Guest Guest>>Where is the winner group?
Ryan Pinckney>>but noone would have privacy eric
nicholas gonzalez>>Surveilance within a company is okay, but cameras
everywhere watching every step is going to far
Jonathan Blanton>>We're in here somewhere.
Coy ralley>><---right here
Ryan Pinckney>>right here
Colin McMillen>>are you willing to sacrifice privacy for a possible
crime reduction?
matt hayes>>but to the extent they invade your privacy
Ryan Pinckney>>nope
Guest Guest>>So get your ideas out here in the debate
Thea Warringer>>privacy would also down
Eric Brannen>>oh well my car will not get stolen either
Guest Guest>>Does Technolgoy have politics?
nicholas gonzalez>>who cares about your car?
nicholas gonzalez>>
Jonathan Blanton>>I think privacy is more important than preventing
*every* *possible* crime.
matt hayes>>if not there should b
Ryan Pinckney>>no it does not
Eric Brannen>>I doi
matt hayes>>i hear ya jb
nicholas gonzalez>>to bad, I would rather have your car stolen and me
have my privacy!
Guest Guest>>I'm not seeing much debating in here
Thea Warringer>>your thoughts or your car? Which would you like
taken?
Jonathan Blanton>>We could have a crime-free society, but the cost
would be much too high.
Guest Guest>>Winner group, what does he say?
Jonathan Blanton>>He says, "surveillance bad."
Ryan Pinckney>>society would be awful, no gossip and no goofing off
Coy ralley>>how so jonathan
Guest Guest>>Is that all?
Ryan Pinckney>>electronic surveillance = NO FUN
<-<-<-<- Ryan Pinckney disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:47:41
nicholas gonzalez>>If Zuboff is right, we will end up going into a
surveilance type society
Guest Guest>>Specific details will mak you point better
Eric Brannen>>no fun really
->->->-> Ryan Pinckney connected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:47:54
Guest Guest>>FUN doesn't tell me much
nicholas gonzalez>>we wouldn't be able to pull any pranks
matt hayes>>me neither
Guest Guest>>I'm not convinced.
nicholas gonzalez>>We couldn't take a dump in privacy!
Jonathan Blanton>>Winner gave the example of short-handled hoes.
Long handles would be more comfortable to use, but short handles
allow the foreman to see who is working and who isn't.
Guest Guest>>Did you even read Winner?
Thea Warringer>>what does pranks have to do with anything?
Eric Brannen>>so you could not underage drink and break millions of
laws is that your fun
Jonathan Blanton>>Pranks are fun!
Ryan Pinckney>>ok guest do you do the things you normally do if you
are being watched by your boss?
matt hayes>>yeah that is a good example
nicholas gonzalez>>Fun is what you make of it
Guest Guest>>So what are the implications of the differenbt Hoe
lengths, politidcally, Jonathan?
matt hayes>>eamils are available to the boss if used by company
Guest Guest>>Are you doing the things you normally do because i am in
here?
Jonathan Blanton>>Comfort has been sacrificed in the name of
efficiency.
Colin McMillen>>politics influences technology in that different
technologies promote the political view
Jonathan Blanton>>If you weren't here, guest, we would be cracking
more jokes.
Guest Guest>>Short handled Hoes not more efficient if you have a bad
back. Works against efficiency
Jonathan Blanton>>Or at least I would.
Ryan Pinckney>>well i am less scared of the consequences of my
actions in front of you than say in front of a parent
Guest Guest>>Bad back less work done, short handled hoes bad.
Colin McMillen>>in the hoe example, the shorter hoe promoted a
political view of control over all people, not working with the
people.
Coy ralley>>yea but you would know who was working and who wasnt
matt hayes>>cause you to have a bad back
nicholas gonzalez>>unless you are a midget
Eric Brannen>>this is all recorded so she can read it any way
Coy ralley>>lol
nicholas gonzalez>>then short handled hoes will be fine
Guest Guest>>Except for the supervisor, more efficient CONTROL, but
not nec. more efficient HOEING
Jonathan Blanton>>Short-handled hoes are less comfortable and
probably lead to bad backs.
Ryan Pinckney>>yes so more control, less slacking off
Thea Warringer>>yes, except when effeciency is always do work which
you would have to do in order not to be seen standing up taking a
break.
nicholas gonzalez>>In a way right now we are being watched!
Guest Guest>>It reinforced central control, but didn't get the job
done as well.
Jonathan Blanton>>So they're bad for the workers but good for the
management.
Ryan Pinckney>>but isnt that what the employer is paying for, work
and only work
Guest Guest>>Yup Chico, you are. Notice how the other group is free
from surveillance
Guest Guest>>Because when I was in with them before, they were
actively debating.
nicholas gonzalez>>yeah, I hear them laughing a lot over there
Eric Brannen>>good
Eric Brannen>>here me laugh
Jonathan Blanton>>Yeah, Ryan, you're right, but let me give another
example.
Guest Guest>>Democracy=less central control Inefficient?
Guest Guest>>Nuclear Power vs Solar Energy
matt hayes>>solar energy all the way
Ryan Pinckney>>i am not taking up for the employer jonathan i am just
offering another side
Coy ralley>>solar is more expensive
Eric Brannen>>nuclear power is better if the right people use it
nicholas gonzalez>>Solar Energy is not efficient enough yet
Colin McMillen>>Toffler.
nicholas gonzalez>>blah
Jonathan Blanton>>In jobs with lots of computer usage, employers
often monitor computer usage.
Jonathan Blanton>>Okay, topic switch.
Colin McMillen>>Toffler proposes a powershift is in the making
Eric Brannen>>next
Ryan Pinckney>>topic change
Guest Guest>>good point tho Jonathan
matt hayes>>----------
Coy ralley>>what is the topic
matt hayes>>???
Colin McMillen>>A powershift occurs when the "wealth" of society is
changed.
Guest Guest>>Who do we have in here, McDermott or Toffler?
Eric Brannen>>we don't know
Ryan Pinckney>>why dont they tell us
Coy ralley>>mmmmmmmmmm
Thea Warringer>>he says that empires such as IBM and Russia are
falling and power is shifting
Guest Guest>>Toffler?
Colin McMillen>>Toffler is here
nicholas gonzalez>>ok
matt hayes>>k
Guest Guest>>Hi Alvin.
Coy ralley>>hey toffler
Ryan Pinckney>>sold to collin and tj
nicholas gonzalez>>glad somebody spoke up
<-<-<-<- Ryan Pinckney disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:53:35
->->->-> Ryan Pinckney connected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:53:37
Eric Brannen>>power shifts all the time
Guest Guest>>So do his ideas hold water?
Eric Brannen>>look at tv shows
Colin McMillen>>The proposed powershift is one from a capitalist
society to an information based society
matt hayes>>rome spain england usa
Guest Guest>>Tell that to the hardened arteries of power, Eric. They
don't want it to shift
nicholas gonzalez>>His ideas make sense to some extent
Jonathan Blanton>>I always look at TV shows.
matt hayes>>they swithch constantly
Thea Warringer>>power shifts are happening more recently because
empires falling an power redistributing to other groups
Colin McMillen>>Toffler has a ton of points, but he relies on the
experiences of the reader to back him up, not hard facts he presents.
Guest Guest>>People don't want to switch to information based society
Ryan Pinckney>>as opposed to looking away from tv shows?
Guest Guest>>They are resisting.
Eric Brannen>>they change year to year only the good ones survive but
they are off the air after a couple more years
Eric Brannen>>tv shows
Coy ralley>>i dont have time to watch tv shows
Jonathan Blanton>>In the past, lots of money was required to start a
business. Now, all you need is skill and an Internet connection.
Colin McMillen>>People don't want to, but as information technologies
proliferate, it may happen nonetheless
Guest Guest>>Will we see revenge of the smokestack industries?
Guest Guest>>Good point Jonathan
nicholas gonzalez>>Power is always shifting. Just like the law of
conservation of energy, it is neither created or destroyed but rather
transformed
Guest Guest>>It just got WAY cheaper to get into the game
Colin McMillen>>There will always be a need for smokestack industry
to a certain extent.
Thea Warringer>>maybe but it will take a large influx of capital and
reorganization
Ryan Pinckney>>but what expenses are the internet cutting away?
Guest Guest>>REAL businesses, or virtual businesses. That is the
thing behind all these crazy internet stocks.
Colin McMillen>>Something has to create the microchips and computer
boards, etc that are used by information technologies.
Ryan Pinckney>>phone bills, that is it
Jonathan Blanton>>The ease of entrepeneurship is bad for large
companies, because their power is eroding.
Eric Brannen>>internet is the new power shift
Guest Guest>>Right Colin, but once you create the infastructure, what
else PHYSICAL needs to be built?
nicholas gonzalez>>the internet still needs a lot more work
Thea Warringer>>over the internet, you can buy clothes and tickets
and other conveniences without leaving home.
Guest Guest>>Nuke the Large Companies!
Ryan Pinckney>>it is just easier to start a business because more
people have the internet now
nicholas gonzalez>>links need to be made more stable and no change
every other week
Ryan Pinckney>>but you can do that with a phone TJ
Guest Guest>>Course, all this virtual business can hide things,
sinister things, like slave labor and sweatshops in Asia.
Coy ralley>>faster loading time
nicholas gonzalez>>phone calls cost too much
Thea Warringer>>you can't see it over a phone
<-<-<-<- Guest Guest disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:57:00
Jonathan Blanton>>Links can't be made stable, because the Internet
always changes.
Ryan Pinckney>>and if you saved your $20 a month and spent it on 1800
#'s and catalogs, you arent saving time or money by using the net
matt hayes>>i think it is great all these small companies takes
away from the monopolies like clemson dining
Eric Brannen>>watch in a year the powershift will stop because the
world will be destroyed
Colin McMillen>>The internet powershift is a dangerous one, I think
nicholas gonzalez>>Plus how do you know if the internet is safe to
put information on
Ryan Pinckney>>1800 #s cost too much?
matt hayes>>ok eric
Jonathan Blanton>>Why is it dangerous?
Coy ralley>>what about hackers getting into your computers the
internet is still not safe
Ryan Pinckney>>you can in a catalog
Colin McMillen>>what happens when viruses start to infiltrate key
servers or systems?
Jonathan Blanton>>You get virus-scanning software.
Colin McMillen>>Coy's the man with the hacker comment
Jonathan Blanton>>And you be careful.
nicholas gonzalez>>ok guys she is gone
Eric Brannen>>but new virus are made every day
nicholas gonzalez>>sure are
Coy ralley>>thank god
Jonathan Blanton>>So you update your software often.
nicholas gonzalez>>who makes these virus'
Colin McMillen>>yeah, my vet progress meter told me that!
nicholas gonzalez>>and why?
Ryan Pinckney>>and how many viruses have you had on your computer
eric?
matt hayes>>we do
Eric Brannen>>what everyday
Jonathan Blanton>>I make the viruses.
Coy ralley>>i dont make them i just get them
nicholas gonzalez>>I have had a couple
nicholas gonzalez>>oh
Thea Warringer>>yes but not everything is in a catalog. Information
can move faster over the internet than in a catalog. You're not put
on hold on the internet.
nicholas gonzalez>>can I get some
nicholas gonzalez>>I need to send some to Grace!
Eric Brannen>>none because i use it very little I hate computers
Jonathan Blanton>>Sure, for $20.
Ryan Pinckney>>ah but the $20 per month??
Colin McMillen>>that's all she wrote!
nicholas gonzalez>>don't stop yet
matt hayes>>what were we talkimg about
Coy ralley>>i dont know
Jonathan Blanton>>We're rambling.
nicholas gonzalez>>oh
nicholas gonzalez>>i see
Ryan Pinckney>>ah booo
nicholas gonzalez>>bye bye
Eric Brannen>>hello
Coy ralley>>good bye
Ryan Pinckney>>byebye
matt hayes>>later guys
<-<-<-<- Colin McMillen disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:59:41
<-<-<-<- nicholas gonzalez disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:59:43
Thea Warringer>>bye
<-<-<-<- Coy ralley disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:59:45
<-<-<-<- Thea Warringer disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:59:46
Jonathan Blanton>>See you.
Eric Brannen>>don't leave me
<-<-<-<- matt hayes disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 12:59:51
Ryan Pinckney>>im am going to be the last one hahahahahah
Jonathan Blanton>>We have to leave you.
Eric Brannen>>no me
Ryan Pinckney>>nope me
<-<-<-<- Jonathan Blanton disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 13:00:05
<-<-<-<- Eric Brannen disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 13:00:05
Ryan Pinckney>>yes!
<-<-<-<- Ryan Pinckney disconnected at: Mon Feb 22 1999 13:00:12
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